Revelations of a Russian woman suspected of cruel murder: an interview from an American prison - ForumDaily
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Revelations of a Russian woman suspected of cruel murder: an interview from an American prison

Victoria Nasyrova, 41 year, a citizen of Russia, now located in the prison complex Rikers islandand specifically in the women's prison center Rose M. Singer, is accused by the 31 act on serious (class D), and less serious crimes. She has already been found guilty in two shoplifting cases, and on August 15 in a Brooklyn court County Supreme Court It will undergo its first trial of serious crimes committed in the United States - poisoning and attempted poisoning. Also at the moment she is accused of a brutal murder committed in Russia several years ago.

In the past six months, her story has become the loudest in the Russian-speaking space of America. However, as practice has shown, not only Russian-speaking.

Mitchell Abramson, spokesperson Department of Correction NYC, when I got a ride from the parking lot Rikers island to the prison territory, having previously issued me a pass, he said, getting behind the wheel: “She’s like a celebrity now. Everyone goes to her. Everyone wants to talk to her. What are you going to talk to her about, Nata, I don’t know Russian?” he asked. “About prison. About life before prison,” I couldn’t specify my answer.

The interview took place in Russian, under the supervision of Mitchell and another lady officer. After the interview to my question, “Tell me, Mitchell, can I get some alternative opinion from your officers about this prisoner? You understand that what she said - the words of just one person? ". Mitchell took a pause to find out if it was possible, and subsequently wrote that they could not fulfill my request.

In general, the preparation of a reporter's visit to Rikers island It took about three months. The main difficulty was correspondence with the press office. Department of Correction NYC, approval of the date and time of the visit and double signing of the prisoner's consent to the interview (to which she agreed easily, but by the time of the approval of the exact date, her previous consent had expired).

So the story that everyone wrote about is a little bit ForumDaily was able to hear first hand: from the mouth of the accused. This was the first time she had been allowed to speak for so long—an entire hour.

Why did you give up the photographer?

First of all, I've already been photographed enough. Secondly, for the last two weeks I have had an allergic reaction - I don’t know what, or the powder, I worked in laundry, or something else - in general, my face is not in the best light today. After what they wrote about me, I wouldn’t want to look less than photogenic. That's why I wouldn't want to be filmed.

And how do you find out what they wrote about you?

As they say, the world is not without good people. I call from time to time at will, there are people with whom I communicate, and they tell me.

Not so long ago in a telephone conversation you told me that you already know how much approximately you are serving. How do you know this and what are your versions built on?

My version is based on a conversation with my legal aid a lawyer. In addition, while I was in prison, I pretty much grew adept in the jurisprudence of America, and comparing my charges and my case with the affairs of other prisoners, I tend to think that my lawyer was right when told me the approximate time of my conclusion.

And what is this term?

He assumes that they will give me one CDR, that is, 8 months. And I'll be here six. That is, if everything goes well and nothing changes, and there are still no victims of my terrible actions, then in September I will probably be released.

I was somewhat struck by your acceptance of yourself. You are not trying to deny that you were involved in poisoning, that you met with men, hating them, you look pretty confident in general and are not trying to justify anything. Can you describe how you feel to the world and how do you perceive your arrest in this sense?

Firstly, the fact that I do not deny my involvement in the poisonings is a lie. Quite the contrary, I always said that I did not participate in any poisonings. This actually sounds strange to me. In my classical understanding, poisoning is when a person deliberately puts some kind of poison into other people’s food. I didn’t do any of this, and if law enforcement agencies have information to the contrary, they must prove it. As for my relationships with men, well, fortunately, there were decent men in my life. There were and are. But the vast majority do not evoke any positive emotions in me.

In composing these questions, I was guided by various information sources. ВYou said that you hate men, but, nevertheless, at the time of your arrest you were living with your boyfriend - how do these things fit together?

We lived with him in a certain ... order, let's say, in a relationship. I answered his request not to show our relations in public, therefore the people who saw us, so to speak, outside, thought we were an ordinary couple. Well, some suggested that we might have some kind of unconventional relationship, because I could afford to be quite harsh with him in public, but basically we looked like an ordinary couple. But what happened behind closed doors was a different story.

Why do you think he asked you about it?

Probably because he is afraid.

And what were these such relationship, which are shy to tell people?

It was the relationship between the woman who stands at the head and the man who stands deep below. Strange, now I use these words, and they seem to me to be so funny, read from books ... but nonetheless.

Female domination?

Yes.

Victoria Nasyrova. Photo: Directorate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia for the city of Krasnodar

Tell me, please, at the moment there are people who support you morally, and do you need it?

I don’t need anyone’s help at all: neither moral, nor financial, nor legal, nor any other, first of all. Secondly, there are people, of course, who support me - this is, first of all, my family, and thank God, thanks to people whom I did not know before my arrest and who turned out to be new friends in my life, and... They help me in this. I call my family through several phones and talk to them, and I know that everything is fine with them - that’s quite enough for me. I don’t need anything else, I work two jobs here, and I have everything I need for a fairly comfortable life in prison, no matter how strange it may sound.

Here is the laundry - the first, and the second?

I clean special clinic, besides, I have excellent relations with the officers with whom I work. Most officers are yes, people of the near mind. They believe that if you are here, then you are at least lower than them. It's not like that at all. There are officers who understand that, as the Russian proverb says, “do not renounce prisoners from prison or prison”. There are officers who understand that not all those who turned out to be here are notorious criminals and bastards. And these people treat with understanding and try to somehow help, alleviate some kind of prison life.

That’s why I haven’t cried for a long time, although my friend, whom we met here, she always tells me: “I pray every morning and every evening and ask God to give me at least half of your strength.” I don't pray. At first I prayed, and then I stopped, because I look at those people here who constantly read the Bible, talk with God - and it’s somehow strange to me that in order to find God, people need to come to prison.

Tell me, what were your life plans when you came to the USA? What did you want from life then, did you want to arrange a personal life and how exactly?

When I arrived in the USA two and a half years ago, it was my life plans to return to Russia in two weeks.

What was the period of two weeks connected with? Why two?

And I came here... In defiance of everything that was written and talked about, that I came here, secretly crossed the US border with Mexico and ran away - no, many people in Russia, my whole family, and law enforcement agencies were very good are aware that I am going to go to the USA. I came here for two weeks to do my personal business related to my small business and come back. I had absolutely no plans to stay here. I arrived with a small travel bag.

And how did it happen that you stayed?

And when I arrived here, those people who work in the police in Russia, they probably thought that maybe I would not return, and too vigorously launched their activities and I realized that I was no longer to return. It's much better for me to stay here.

However, there was information that Interpol is looking for you.

Yes, this is correct information. I have been on the Interpol search list since about the summer of 2016.

The announcement of the search from the website of Interpol. Photo: interpol.int

And they write that with 2014.

I will not argue here ... Because I did not track, to be honest, this. You know, as a person who knows what is true and what is not true, I was not interested in reading a lie.

That is, you want to say that you absolutely legally entered the country?

Yes of course. It's all easy to check.

In November 2014, did this happen?

No ... Although, wait a minute. Yes, in November 2014.

Have you flown to JFK?

Yes!

And they stayed because they wanted some security?

Yes. Moreover, after the New Year in 2015, in January, I flew to Mexico for two weeks, and just as calmly returned to JFK, passed through customs control ...

Tell me, what is the reason for the warrant F deportation? (warrant for the subsequent, after the trial, deportation - auth.)?

I do not know.

It exists, it can be seen on the Internet in the public domain, and I personally saw it. So I want to understand: if you are indeed legally in the country, where did it come from?

This “warrant” probably exists because I am accused of a fairly serious crime in Russia. And maybe law enforcement agencies and the US police believe that I am quite a dangerous person, and out of harm’s way they want to get rid of me.

What do you think people in prisons need to know about people who have never been to prison?

Hmm... Good question. You need to know that here, first of all, you need to rely only on yourself. And you can't trust anyone. In principle, everything is the same as in ordinary life outside of prison.

What is a beautiful woman in prison? What are her feelings and thoughts? Maybe there is something specific?

Yes. I miss simple feminine joys - manicure, pedicure, hair styling. Perfumes and cosmetics.

Tell me, have you ever imagined that you might be here?

You know, 25 years ago, I watched a film based on the work of Sidney Sheldon “Tomorrow Never Comes.” It tells of a woman who ended up in prison for some fatal mistake. When she was in prison, she lost everything she had, including the child she was pregnant with. Her fiance turned away from her ... And when she came out, she turned out to be useless to anyone, and she was found by one well-mannered old man who offered her a job - to steal the treasure. And this film shook me so much when I watched it, I thought: “Wow, what a strong woman: she’s gone through, got out and ... Let it be illegal, but still ...” And when I went to prison, for some reason I remembered this film. That is, I never dreamed of repeating the life of this heroine, but nevertheless, a similar situation occurred in my life.

No, of course, I never thought that I would go to prison. Especially if you look back at my entire past life - quite successful, interesting, positive...

Do you think that most of the accusations addressed to you are defamation?

I believe that most of the accusations that I have been charged with are not covered from that point of view.

Can you tell us more about this?

I can not, because all this is still in the process. I have not had a single trial on this case. That is, every time I arrived at the appointed time, my court was simply postponed to the next date. I didn’t even see the judge and I don’t know who my accuser is.

In theory, the next meeting should be August 15, am I saying correctly?

Yes. And on August 15, I hope that something will move forward, besides, I feel a burning, irresistible desire to talk with my accuser, because saving drowning people is the work of the drowning people themselves, and I have some information, which, in turn, will be of great interest to law enforcement agencies and can also have a rather fatal effect on the lives of other people who are now at large.

Do you feel some kind of subjective attitude of others?

See, I have a scratch on my face? That I had a fight. For the first time in my life, I fought.

Because of which?

Well, here... How can I tell you? You know, I have the impression that I have a VIP box in a stunning place, with all the amenities, and the show is such crap, excuse my French...

This is where people are, on 98%, I don’t know how correct it will be to say ... Well, such. They are closer to animals than to people. They have no elementary ideas about education, about tact, about communication. That is, if I start talking about it to them, they will look at me as if they are crazy.

Here people talk using about 10 words that I have learned well, and when I once said this to one officer, another officer who heard it said: “Ummm ... Viktoriya, your English is so much better". I speak: "Yes, I have a very good teacher here". People treated me a little strangely, because I lead a rather isolated lifestyle. I hardly talk to anyone...

Is it even possible in prison?

Yes. I practically do not talk to anyone, besides, I work: I leave in the morning, then I have a short break and come in the evening. I take a shower and go to bed. In the morning I wake up and again, now I want to ask me to be given another job to be less in my compartment where the 50 man lives, the 50 women live. I do sports every day, I get up at 6 in the morning, do exercises for an hour and a half.

Are there any conditions for this?

Well, they already treat me more or less leniently, because I am a fairly calm prisoner. I don't start trouble. Yes, I have several conflicts here with the captain and with other officers. But this is due to some kind of... personal mutual rejection. I don’t break the rules, that is: they told me to put on a uniform, I’ll put on a uniform. They told me to braid my hair - I will braid my hair, it’s not difficult for me, I’m not going to complicate my life with this trifle. The other prisoners looked at me a little strangely, one even said that perhaps the police even sent me here so that I could find out some secrets and then tell them. Everyone judges to the best of their ability. I have several people with whom I communicate well here, these are two Russian women, a couple of Puerto Rican women, an American woman - people who are at a higher level of development.

In general, a lot in the center of Russian-speaking women?

At the moment there are 5 people. I live with one of them - I mean, in the same compartment, with the other I work, the third is a real crazy person, the fourth lives in a building with increased secrecy, and I only see her once a week when I come to change my underwear, but we communicate with her, we go with her to jewish servise, for the Jewish holidays this year. She is quite a smart, interesting girl. And one more thing - I don’t give the impression of a pleasant person, I limit myself to only “hello” and “goodbye”.

And how do you think yourself: here, you say "real crazy". If she is really crazy, why is she not in the appropriate medical facility?

And there are a lot of such people here. There are a lot of people who are really crazy: they have either bipolar mental disorder or progressive schizophrenia ... They are taken from time to time to the hospital, which I also visited.

By the way, why did you find yourself there?

I took an increased number of pills here. But I had no desire... As a person who has a basic medical education, I can still calculate how dangerous or not dangerous it is. In general, I took the pills not because I was in some kind of despair or wanted to commit suicide, not seeing any brightness in my life - no, I took the pills quite prudently: I knew that if they took me to the hospital, how Other prisoners have already told me that they will give me the opportunity to call my family in Russia. And yes, I took the pills, they took me to the hospital and there social worker She helped me to contact my family, who at that time had an idea of ​​what was happening to me, only on the basis of newspapers and television.

I spent ten days in the hospital and met two amazing people there. One of them is the Russian nurse Irina, who on Easter Day brought me a piece of Easter consecrated in the church, and in general took a fairly active part in my fate. And another guy, he comes all the time to the hospital’s psychiatric ward, conducting so-called art therapy with the prisoners who are there. He is also Russian-speaking, he talked with me a lot, and I am very grateful to him, he directed my thoughts in the right direction, let’s say. So I went to the hospital, looked at the real crazy people there, came back, one month I lived in (onest be - the title is illegible - author.) This is an era for, let's say, a little bit crazy, looked at people there, and all the officers wondered why I was here, I said: "Yes, I am not crazy."

This reminded me of an anecdote about how, you know, there is a meeting of the medical commission in a madhouse, all the crazy people are gathered in the assembly hall, and the head doctor of the madhouse speaks and says: “We will build a swimming pool next year!” All the crazy people applaud, and one person stands near the doorway and just watches with his hands folded. Listens. Then the head physician says: “Next year we will open a gym!” - the crazy people simply go wild with applause - but this one stands, listens, and does not applaud. The head doctor continues to rant, in the end, he became interested in why this man did not react violently, asking “Why don’t you applaud?” “I’m not crazy, I’m an electrician.” I had the same impression.

What were these pills and where did you most importantly take them?

And they give me! They give me medicine.

Is it a sleeping pill?

Yes, this is a sleeping pill and a drug for depression, because they all think... a colossal amount of money is spent here, and it is spent so stupidly... Pills for sleep, for depression and God knows what else are given to everyone, you just have to say that you are not sleeping well and you experience some kind of phantom pain, and so on, and so on. You will be bombarded with drugs! They gave me these pills and, of course, I didn’t take them. I don't have depression. And if I cried in the first two weeks of my imprisonment, I did not cry because I was depressed: I cried from powerlessness. Because I ended up here so stupidly, I wasted quite a lot of time so stupidly - but only for these reasons. And when the doctor... Well, he's not a doctor, he phisical assistant, asked me “why are you crying”, I wanted to ask him “are you crazy or what?” I'm in jail! This place in itself is conducive for a person to have some negative manifestations of emotions. It would be strange if I were happy, jumping with joy, dancing and singing songs. That would be strange. It seems to me that if a person is forced into prison, especially under the circumstances in which I found myself, it seems to me that it is quite expected that he will cry, that he will experience sadness, melancholy...

You say "I got stupid." Specify, please, why “stupid” and why “caught”. As far as I know, you were being watched. quite professional

Well, I didn’t hide especially. I kept a fairly active profile on Facebook, many people knew about my location, including the girl who hired this private detective. Therefore... How everyone spoke highly of him, what a professional he is - if I were encrypted, changed apartments, addresses, addresses, passwords, changed my appearance, and he still found me - then yes, but otherwise it wouldn’t be very difficult to find me . “I got caught” - I don’t mean in the sense that I needed to do something differently so as not to be arrested, I got caught - I mean, in some kind of stupid dirty story, which, however less, for the most part she blinded it with her own hands.

ForumDaily also interviewed Detective G. Weisberg, whose efforts Victoria was caught and taken into custody. Read in the material A New York detective told how he caught a Russian woman wanted for murder.

A person is logically responsible for his actions, right?

You know, if everyone was responsible for their actions, they would not have had enough prisons.

Tell me, would you like to return to Russia?

Would love to. If I, at least on 50%, was sure that my return to Russia guarantees me safety ... I am not afraid of the investigation that is being carried out there. Only one thing scares me: that I will never achieve the truth there.

And the truth is that you did not kill this woman?

Of course. The truth is that I did not kill. And, as they later wrote that they suspected me of killing a few more people ... I can’t prove it after all the big machine they started there. That is, whatever money I paid to the best lawyer, there is a fairly rigid system built. If the system needs a person to remove, it will be removed, no matter what happens. Whoever he is, whatever he says, and whatever forces stand behind him. Here, in principle, democracy does not flourish too much. At first I thought that in America there really is freedom-equality, but now I understand that facts are being rigged here, corruption is also here, and there are dishonest representatives of law enforcement bodies. All this is exactly the same here. And if they need a high-profile case, then they will do a high-profile case and they will not look at anything, not at the Human Rights Bill, or at the constitution, or at anything.

You say that you came for two weeks to resolve the issue with your business. What was this business?

In addition to everything I did in Russia, I had a small business. This was not the first time I came to the USA, and, in addition to the USA, I was in Italy, Spain, France, and Germany. I bought quite expensive things here - bags, branded clothes, and then sold them in Russia. I had several points. People who took goods from me for sale. Or the places that I rented, and this product was sold there.

That is, you come for the goods.

Yes.

And how did your rationale happen in this city, in Brooklyn, as far as I know, at that moment when you already realized that you were staying here? How did you get started? Did you rent an apartment? How did they settle down?

I rented a room in the apartment. Found it through the service airbnb, and then, when I realized that I had to stay, I talked with those guys from whom I rented a room, and... Without any problems, we came to an agreement that I would live with them. I paid them regularly, another thing is that these guys did not pay their owner - and after some time we were thrown out of the apartment.

For sublet?

Yes. They introduced themselves to me as the owners, I didn’t even know. I arrived and all I knew from English was “How much? Because all my life I have taught German, I have spoken and understood it quite well so far. English was something unknown to me. Besides, after all the history that unfolded in Russia, I am somehow here ...

My agility has diminished. I'm alone in a foreign country. Nobody here. I do not know anything. That is, when you come here as a twenty-year-old, it’s one story; when you come at the age of 38 and have a certain standard of living behind you and a certain idea of ​​yourself and your place in this world, it’s a completely different story. It was very difficult for me to adapt to this life. It was difficult for me, because I needed to look for a job, after in Russia I was my own boss, earned quite good money and had people working for me...

And then I found myself in the exact opposite situation - and this situation was also quite negative. No work permit. Even though I had a visa that was valid at that time, according to all laws I could not work here. Besides - if you don't have a work permit - I think it's no secret to you - the people who hire you treat you like a second-class citizen. People from the former Soviet Union are especially famous for this.

The Russian community is a different story. If a miracle suddenly happens, I will be released and stay in the USA, I will never live among Russians. Never. I will go somewhere out in the wilderness, to a village, but not with the Russians.

But at that moment I had no other choice but to stay here. And I worked, changed several jobs - in a store, washed houses and apartments. Then I realized that maybe I should return to what I did in Russia, in particular - cosmetology, and by that time I had already made some acquaintances and worked for someone there on an appointment basis, then my clients appeared... But that was much later.

That is, in Russia you were engaged in cosmetology. Maybe you still have some kind of profession, education?

Yes of course. By my first education I am a teacher of history and world art culture, I graduated from the Pedagogical Institute, I worked at 11 for years at school, at a university, at a college, I defended my PhD in history of pedagogy. Then, when I lived in Moscow, I realized that I would like to acquire some kind of specialty that would give me more free time. And I graduated from cosmetology courses, and since I have an unfinished medical education, which is equal to medical assistant courses, I easily received an education in cosmetology and then I worked in this field.

Globally, do you regret coming to the US, or not?

Globally, I only regret that I made a big mistake 8 years ago. More no regrets. The fact that I came to the USA ... Sometimes I think - if I hadn’t arrived, maybe it wouldn’t have happened, if I hadn’t gone to the USA and the investigation would not have thought that I decided to hide, and maybe I would have had time, and most importantly, the ability to somehow change the situation that began to take shape around me. But in general, I never liked to think about what can no longer be changed. Meaning to regret it? This cannot be changed. Therefore, it may be, on the contrary, the fact that I stayed in the USA is my chance, if I don’t start a new life, it’s impossible to start a new life, but try to live in some other way ...

If it's not a secret, what was the mistake?

When I started working with the police. 8 years ago for the first time I was attracted to participate in some kind of police operation to detect and arrest corrupt officials.

Was it in Russia?

Yes, in the Krasnodar Territory, I then lived there. It was 8 years ago, the first time, for me it seemed something even interesting ...

And why you?

Because with the person who drew me there, we had a joint business, or rather, he had this business, but he took me to work, and, probably, my business skills somehow attracted him. He thought, probably, that I would cope with this reasonably well, which in principle, subsequently, turned out to be true. I did a great job with my work.

Then why do you regret it?

Because these minor matters have subsequently grown into quite complex and serious ones. And there already it was not about taking a person in the act when receiving a bribe. And about quite serious other matters.

And you could not get out of this?

I tried to get out once. When I said that I didn’t want to work anymore - by that time I was already living in Moscow, I was already earning good money, I could no longer afford to worry that my child would not be given expensive medicine, that I could buy it myself... besides At that moment we already had Moscow registration and it was not a problem for me to place the child in the best clinic in Moscow. And I thought that... I’ve kind of grown up, feathered, and can already live on my own. I said that I didn’t want to work anymore, to which they told me “okay, no problem.” And a few days later, when I drove from Moscow in my car to my parents, somewhere in the Voronezh region, I don’t remember the name of this village, right on the highway I was stopped by two traffic police cars, supposedly to check my documents, and... Bad things were found in my car. They took me to the police station, kept me there for quite a long time, then, I remember well, a major came in, gave me a telephone receiver and said: “They want to talk to you.” And on the phone the person with whom I worked in Moscow told me “you will stop working when I want it.”

Drugs found in your car?

I will not talk about it now.

Tell me, what would you most like if (or “at that moment like”) you were acquitted?

Just see my family.

That is, you still would go, despite all the requests for the extradition of Russian lawyers, about which the Russians remove television programs, despite all the accusations?

Yes, I would go to Russia. In order to embrace parents, son, I would go.

How old is your son?

Fourteen.

Does he know what is going on?

Of course!

And how does it react?

Hm How can a 14-year-old child react, knowing that his mother is in prison? I liked the fact that when I talked to him, he told me that “none of us and your real friends believe in what they write about you. And I want to tell you that for me you are the best mom. ”

Let's clarify one confusing moment: in February-March 2017, you did not know that you were wanted at all? Or did they know that they were wanted in Russia, but did not know that they were looking for you here too?

I knew that I was wanted in Russia.

The site of the State Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia in the Krasnodar Territory. Photo: 23.mvdr.rf

But that you are being watched, you are not ...

You know, I'll tell you. Literally 4-5 days before I was arrested, I realized that I was being followed. And I even told my boyfriend about this, to which he laughed and said, “You have a persecution mania.” I say: listen, they are watching me. You know, I worked for 8 years not in the police, but with the police. And I know quite well how this whole system works. And it was not difficult for me to detect the surveillance, because it was a fairly clumsy job. I saw them: first there was a Grand Cherokee, an old black jeep, then there was another car, some kind of sedan, I don’t remember the brand. Silver. That is, I saw that they were watching me, but, to be honest, I had the feeling that maybe these were really some legs from Russia. And I was about to leave.

Where to?

It was this question and its solution that postponed my departure, because I didn’t know where to go. I didn’t know what to do, I was kind of confused. In addition, the person with whom I lived at that time - he reacted so funny, “Listen, well, you’re paranoid.” He knew very well about my history, that I was wanted in Russia. “No, this can’t be”... And I somehow calmed down. It was only when I was arrested on Monday that I finally realized that I was right.

And your boyfriend said in an interview that he knew nothing. Who should I believe?

And I don't ask anyone to believe me. I say what I can say. And who you believe is your right. I can't say: Nata, you have to believe me.

You appeared so confidently on Facebook, in women's groups, and created a certain dissonance in the perception of you. You knew that there was surveillance, you wanted to leave, and at the same time you were actively shining in social networks; I can not really imagine it.

Probably, my inner feeling that I was not to blame gave me... I had no desire, I didn’t even have any thoughts of somehow burying myself, hiding somewhere, or leading some kind of secretive lifestyle. No! I was sure that this whole story that happened in Russia would burst someday over time - the bubble cannot inflate endlessly. I was sure that there would be some facts, some witnesses who would refute all this. And I felt quite safe. I wasn’t... Although, friends in Russia often said “Be careful”... I didn’t do anything, why should I hide?

Tell me, was your appearance in New York, Brooklyn, somehow related to the fact that Nadezhda Ford lived there (daughter of a woman killed in Russia - author)?

Absolutely not.

And did you expect from the fact of its existence in this city of some kind of trick?

I'll tell you more, I even saw her several times.

Well, respectively, and she saw you?

Yes. But I somehow had ... Well ... At first, when all this happened, I was genuinely sorry for her. I felt sorry for her as a person whose misfortune happened, and as a person whom I knew personally. We were not strangers to her. We were familiar. And then, seeing how persistently she accepts what she is given, and how persistently she believes in it, I had a feeling that ... If a person is stupid, why pity him?

Tell me, under what circumstances did you see each other in New York? Was it some kind of deliberate or casual meeting?

I arrived when I came here again in exactly the same way to buy goods. Her mother, who subsequently disappeared and who was later, unfortunately, found murdered, Alla, may the kingdom of heaven be hers - she wrote to her, and by that time we already knew each other, since she had previously come to Russia. We met in Krasnodar, where I had an apartment. That is, it was not some kind of multi-step plan on how I could kill Alla and take possession of some jewelry, money, I don’t know what else I took possession of. That is, it all happened completely by accident. And when I came to the USA, I didn’t come to her, not to Nadezhda, I had a hotel in Manhattan, we spent a lot of time together, Nadezhda rented a car, which I paid for, that is, I didn’t have an American license... But she took it to her credit card, and I simply returned the cash to her. I needed a person who could take me shopping, to outlets, and speak English, and I paid her for it. That is, we had quite such... Friendly business relations, nothing more.

What are you afraid of in life? Are you afraid of anything?

Hmm... Of course, I’m afraid, but now I can’t even describe what exactly. I'm probably afraid that something like this might happen... Not even to me. I'm not afraid of anything that could happen to me. My only Achilles heel is my family. Nothing else can hurt me, and nothing can touch or offend me. The only thing I am afraid and worried about is about my family, that everything will be fine with them, that they will be healthy. We are destined to see each other - we will see each other. Not destined - I'll take it for granted. I know that my friends in Russia help my family, I know that my family loves me and believes me, and for me this is the most important thing.

How would you like to describe what happened?

You know, Nata, when I had an interview with your predecessors here... I said a phrase that, maybe deep down in my heart, I’m even glad that I was arrested. They asked again, “Happy?” - no, I’m not happy. Glad. Happiness and joy are still different concepts. Why are you glad? Because lately I’ve been a little tired of living a life that’s not my own.

Why not yours? What was she not her?

The last 2,5 years that I lived here, about which I say that this is not my life, I had the feeling that I was always groveling here. I could not live the way I wanted, and the way I lived; many things were inaccessible to me due to objective reasons and subjective ones too. And I was so tired of this, I wanted to enjoy the simplest things. Which I didn't have here. And after I was arrested, I realized: maybe this, you know, is a chance? A period of life that is quite dark, filled, perhaps, with not the best actions either on my part or on the part of other people... - close and start a new stage. Not a new life, a new stage. How to be reborn.

And what are these “simple joys”, simple things for you?

Breakfast with your family. The opportunity to see your friends. The ability to communicate with those people with whom you want, and not with whom you must. I didn’t like and dislike many things here, and especially the fact that, as I’ve already said, I was forced to live among Russian-speaking people who ... well, are not the best representatives of Russian nationality.

You know, I would like to ask you, for example, to ask why the Russian community here in America, you consider under-membership ...

No, I think this is a community. I people I think under-people. Although, 2 a year ago, I was raped by one person - although not my nationality, but also ... a compatriot.

Here, or ...?

Here, here. In spite of everything, I filed a statement with the police, arrested him, and I went to court, testified, talked to a detective, that is, it all developed, but it did not end, because I was scared at one moment that I was coming to the court, and they will arrest me from the court and take me to Russia. I just changed my phone, email, and stopped answering the phone calls of the prosecutor who worked with me and other people who ... I don’t know what the story ended with, I just threw it out of my head, I didn’t even remember for a while about it.

What were your beliefs and values, or did you have to, or, on the contrary, have you had to reconsider with going to prison?

You know, I always knew that I was a fairly strong person, but now I understand that... Really strong. Values... I regret that I prioritized some unnecessary material things - cars, apartments, diamonds, fur coats. This is all such nonsense... Now I don’t have all this, and I absolutely don’t care about it. The only thing I truly regret is that I spent little time with my family. And if it were possible to turn back time, I would of course... Every time I talk to my family, write letters, every time I tell them “Forgive me” for... everything happened like this.

Photo: video frame

What is a Russian-speaking person most annoying in an American prison? Well, except for the lack of books in Russian?

(Laughs) Hmm! But I was okay... At first, it was annoying that I didn’t speak English and understood practically nothing. Now I go to school, study English, I can communicate quite freely with prisoners and officers, at least everyone understands me perfectly. Some stupid rules bother me, but they are everywhere. You know, I live absolutely calmly here. Sometimes I don't even feel like it's a prison. I have a feeling that this is such a... disgusting sanatorium. Where they brought me and after some time they will take me away, but before they take me away, I cannot leave here. People are probably what irritates me the most. You can't force them to behave the way you want them to behave. These songs at night, dancing. These constant showdowns and fights.

Yes, I had a fight once, but I had a fight to establish once and for all a definite opinion about myself in the compartment where I lived.

Does this often happen to other girls?

At least 2 times a day. That is, if the day passed without a fight - “bad wedding, there was no fight.” Besides, you know, life here is very monotonous. It’s good, I’m working, I have some new sensations, I went out, looked at something else, talked with other prisoners, and 30 people sit all the time in this big room.

Do they not work?

Not. Some do not want.

Why are you yes and they are not?

Well, for example, I want to work. I even want to ask for more work to be given for Saturday and Sunday, because I don’t have my two main jobs on Saturday and Sunday. I want to ask. On the weekend, even if it’s not paid, I’ll work for free, firstly, I like to move, and secondly, sit and watch all the time and participate in all these stupid “who stole soup from whom?” “You owe me chicken soup - no, I gave you two tuna steaks, give me back the beef steak”... It’s strange for me to participate in all this, so I abstract myself. People, yes. People here are the only factor that is quite annoying. And I also want to tell you that discrimination based on race is quite serious here. 90% of prisoners are African Americans. And 99,9% of the officers are also African-American. And there are officers who simply ignore you for this reason. I even said: “Listen, yes, I have white skin. But I'm not going to be here (“I don't want to speak English now so they can understand” - nods towards two officers watching us - author), I’m not going to be here for a very long time and for the sake of this I’m not going to change my skin color to please you - I told one of the officers.

Victoria, in a telephone conversation, you promised to tell me something that you never said to anyone. I am listening really carefully.

Three months ago I received a letter from a stranger. The man. I was so surprised and at first thought that this was definitely not for me. Then, when I was already reading the letter, I understood. The man wrote about what he read about me first in the newspaper, then watched all the television programs, and he was so interested in this topic that he read a lot and ... that he wants to just be my friend because he understands how hard it can be for me be in jail. He came to visit me several times, trying to help me somehow, and we are developing enough now, if it is appropriate to use this word in this case, a romantic relationship. My friend, the Russian-speaking, laughs and says: “Well, yes ... You just recently said in an interview that you’ve stopped relationships with men ...”. I say: “No, I said that I stopped practicing certain relationships with men, but no one said that I was going to go to a monastery and put an end to my personal life”. Therefore, we develop relations in correspondence and he comes to visit me, and gives me full moral support, but I don’t need material support.

That is, he has already made visits here?

Yes.

And do you like him?

Do you like. I like his human qualities. I do not evaluate it in terms of appearance. I wonder what he has in his head that made him do it.

Sorry, I correct my tongue all the time because I broke a tooth. Tomorrow I go to the dentist, I hope that everything will be repaired to me.

Is there a dental service here?

There is full medical service here; here, even if you want to die, they won’t let you. As my Russian friend jokes: “Well, now you definitely look like a prisoner: there’s no tooth, there’s a scratch, there’s something wrong with your face.” And I tell her: “Well, I’m in prison!”

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An island of ill fame, between Manhattan and Queens

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