Ex-KGB general Oleg Kalugin: “Putin is a nondescript former major”

One of the expositions of the Museum of espionage, which was created with the participation of Oleg Kalugin. Photo: Lesya Bakalets

Oleg Kalugin - the former head of foreign intelligence, the youngest KGB general. In the US, he worked under the guise of a fellow of the Fulbright internship program, an American correspondent for Moscow Radio and a press attaché at the Soviet Embassy in Washington. At the same time, he supplied information from the KGB and recruited new agents. In 1971, he was called back to the USSR, as the head of the KGB, Vladimir Kryuchkov, suspected him of double duty. Then Kalugin was supported by Secretary General Yuri Andropov, and the intelligence officer received a high post in Leningrad. As head of the foreign counterintelligence department, he rose to the rank of major general, while being under constant control of the KGB. In 2001, Kalugin gave testimony to an American court in the case of former US Army Colonel George Trofimoff (who worked for the Soviet Union) - the Russian government regarded them as treason and sentenced Kalugin in absentia to 15 years of maximum security, depriving him of all ranks and awards. In 2003, he received political asylum in the United States. Now the 81-year-old former intelligence officer lives in Maryland, has published two books about his work, and is on the board of directors of the Spy Museum in Washington.

Photo: Dmitry Savchuk

We met with Oleg Kalugin in the Museum of espionage. Here he is a real star. Cashiers and shop assistants recognize him in a bookstore, the deputy director shakes his hand, and museum visitors constantly interrupt our conversation with a question: “Were you just shown in a documentary about spies?”.

It seems that this is where he is in his element - moving from stand to stand, showing objects in which you can hide a bug, and his portrait with the slogan: “Deception is my game.” Despite his age, the former intelligence officer quickly walks around the entire museum, and we head on foot to the political city ​​center. The Capitol, the Supreme Court and the State Department - during business trips to the United States, Oleg Kalugin went here as if he were going to work.

For the former KGB general, there are no taboo topics: he easily talks about all the nuances of the spy profession, readily recalls his former subordinate Vladimir Putin and reveals the details of special operations of the FSB regarding Nadezhda Savchenko.

Oleg Danilovich, how would you rate the episode with a letter that the Ukrainian president allegedly wrote to the pilot Nadezhda Savchenko. Do the intelligence services' ears stick up from there?

Without a doubt. This is a classic special operation, the KGB system and technologies were and are common to both the Russian FSB and the Ukrainian SBU. The culture is the same. Russia has always solved complex problems in this way. This is a serious, resonant matter. In such cases, the FSB always asks permission from the country's leadership and never acts independently. There was agreement, most likely, from Putin, who is well versed in such matters. Putin is the main leader today on all issues. More than 10 people were involved in this situation - this is how the technology works. They had to prescribe the methodology, collect information, and send documents for signature. Don't forget that Savchenko is in prison - this has always complicated such operations. As for the supposedly Ukrainian telephone number, this is not a problem for the security service.

And how can you generally regard Putin’s actions in relation to Nadezhda Savchenko? Is he really not interested in sharing or is he waiting for something more?

I think he is waiting for something more. In the end, it is not in Putin’s interest to keep her in prison for a long time. And when a situation arises that corresponds to Russia's interests in understanding Putin, he will exchange it, find a way to solve this problem.

More is what? The Ukrainian president has already stated that he is ready to exchange Savchenko for any prisoner of war.

And, once stated, it means you need to find this “anyone.” Putin is waiting. He will not let her go until there are decent proposals from the other side. The longer she is held in prison, the more she will look like such a historical figure. I would be in place of Putin would find another way to quickly get rid of it. I do not mean physical destruction, of course.

In your personal experience, what development of this story can be next?

It's hard for me to say, because what makes Russia today remarkable is because of its unpredictability. Under Putin, Russia is unpredictable.

And what would you personally do?

I would find a way to either exchange it, or find some solution, so as not to create an international buzz.

Photo: Dmitry Savchuk

For most of your life, you worked, to put it mildly, not in favor of the United States. How did the American government agree to give you political asylum?

There was a problem, yes. There was a lot of indignation here at Capitol Hill, in Congress and in the CIA, they say - how so? He worked against us, headed a huge network of anti-American agents. But I was supported by some people, in particular, Colin Powell (former US Secretary of State - ForumDaily).

Did the American government want nothing in return for political asylum? Secret information, for example?

But I wrote a book. All information is there. Know this process (obtaining political asylum - ForumDaily) was not easy. This went on for quite a long time, I remember saying: if the CIA does not like me so much, let them invite me and we will talk with them. I came and spoke there in front of a large number of people.

What was asked about?

I just told my story, and then there were questions: about my work, how and why did I find myself in America, am I not a double figure. And I was very pleasantly surprised when applause followed. The only organization that didn’t invite me was the FBI.

You say that a lot of influential people came out in your defense. How did they argue their sympathy for you?

They argued it simply: if I am in America and I seek political asylum, and with such a past, it means something. And indeed, I sought asylum for reasons of my own security and for political reasons, because my disappointment in the Soviet government was complete. And when Putin came to power, some nondescript former KGB major, and began to re-establish the Soviet order in a country that was still in a state of reform, and he essentially restored the old order in many respects, for me it was unacceptable .

“Putin is a homely former major”

Photo: Dmitry Savchuk

A person who leads a huge country, annexes the territory of another state and enters the army, wherever it pleases, do you call simply “a nondescript former major”?

Yes, I said so. He was my subordinate and did not stand out at all. When he returned from the GDR, where he worked for almost 5 for years at the KGB office in Dresden, he was unemployed. Then just in the KGB were all sorts of perturbations. He brought with him a “Trabant”, a car produced by the GDR, and worked as a taxi driver on it.

How did he then made his way into politics?

And then he was noticed by the then mayor of St. Petersburg, Anatoly Sobchak. I had a good relationship with him, and he somehow told me: listen, Oleg, I am now the mayor of the city, and I need some kind of connection with the KGB. Can you recommend someone to me? I gave him the names of people I knew and respected. He replied that these were too high officials and decided to search by himself. And now he himself somehow discovered that his former law student by the name of Putin is now out of work. And he invited him to his place to work in the mayor’s office. So Putin became assistant mayor on the organization of commercial and other relations with the West.

And in this position, he somehow showed himself?

Yes, when hunger times began in Russia, Yeltsin was president, the queues were everywhere. And in Leningrad, it turned out that Putin was able to organize food supplies to the city through Finland. And there went the commodities: oil, all the raw materials that Russia is rich in. And then Yeltsin asked: why am I doing fine in Leningrad, and here in Moscow, the devil knows what is happening? And he was told that there is a good assistant to the mayor. Yeltsin said: so let him come here, to Moscow. So, Putin came to Moscow, became deputy manager of the Kremlin administration for economic issues.

And you personally, how many times intersect with Putin?

Putin was my subordinate in Leningrad. But, to be honest, he was such an inconspicuous figure that I only remember his face, because he came to sign some papers.

It was assumed that Putin could become who he is now?

No, I never did, I don’t think anyone in Russia did. This was Yeltsin's choice. And by the way, Yeltsin, already retired, shortly before his death, gave an interview - I even have a clipping. And there they asked Yeltsin: looking back at your life, what do you think are the biggest mistakes you made? Yeltsin said, and I quote: oh, I made so many mistakes that it’s hard to even talk about it. Perhaps the two biggest ones are the war in Chechnya and the choice of my successor. I have these words in printed form, but now you will not find them anywhere - they have simply been destroyed.

What are the weaknesses of the Russian President, in your opinion?

Well, you know, it's better to ask his ex-wife, who, after 30 years of marriage, took from him and left. We must say bluntly - to live 30 for years with a man and suddenly take and leave the president of a great power. This is what she needs to ask - what was the reason?

Do you see the possibilities of ending his rule?

At least for today the prospects for his voluntary withdrawal are not obvious. And involuntary - it depends largely on the economic and political situation in the country, so far it is relatively favorable for Putin.

How favorable? Look at the ruble exchange rate!

Today it is quite tolerant, the people are patient. Russian people are used to patience. Well, and when patience ends, a revolution comes, like the October one.

Is revolution possible in today's Russia?

It is possible, but the Russian people are more patient, even than Ukrainian, and more I would say intimidated by the system in which they have been living for many decades.

“It was not difficult to bug Congress.”

Poster at the Spy Museum: "Deception is my game." Photo: Lesya Bakalets

The American people are also long-suffering: you once installed a bug in the Congress building. And they will subsequently give you citizenship. Satisfy my curiosity - how did you then manage to install a sound recording device there?

It was easy. But there was a confusion - the bug found the cleaning lady. She somehow very carefully washed under the table and grazed him, the bug and fell. That is, the scandal was. Then there was no such strong check at the entrance, everything changed after the September 11 terrorist attack.

And where else did the bugs install?

At the State Department, we set up in one of the offices, in the conference room. And then I came out of the State Department, sat on the bench opposite, and turned on the device - I listened, everything works, they talk there, the audibility is excellent.

That is, just sat on the bench and listened?

Yes, just like that! I came when there was a break - there was no one and installed. I used my acquaintances to go anywhere.

And the FBI didn't suspect that you were an intelligence officer? Maybe they were trying to recruit you here in America?

No, never here. They knew that it was better not to mess with me. I think they studied me well enough. Yes, and the evidence that I work for intelligence, they had. But they could not catch me in the act. On the contrary, they always behaved friendly, and I did the same in return. For example, two FBI cars are driving behind me and I understand that I can slip through the yellow light and break away from them. But I slow down so that they come, so that they don’t get the impression that I want to run away somewhere.

That is, you behaved decently?

Yes. I remember I went to Florida, and the local authorities there also followed me. I'm going to the restaurant - they follow me. Once I was at a local motel, I went out to the car in the morning - and it wouldn’t start, but I wanted to eat. So I got out on the highway and decided to walk to the nearest establishment. I literally walked about 200 meters, no more, and suddenly I heard a car stop behind me, an FBI agent got out and asked: Mr. Kalugin, where are you going? This is a highway, no sidewalk. I explained and they offered me a ride. They waited for me until I ate and took me back.

About blackmail: “I never used it. I just didn’t have such a need — I could convince people. ”

Oleg Kalugin tells what medications the scouts used to recruit new agents. Photo: Lesya Bakalets

Is it difficult to recruit people in principle?

Well, it depends on the person - what is his mental attitude, whether he is experiencing material difficulties. This is the search for such people, who are somehow vulnerable, and constitute the task of intelligence in the first stage. Then, when you find such a person, then you are already looking for some common language. For example, there was such a professor, PhD in international relations at Columbia University. I often saw him and noticed that he was somehow alone. I made inquiries about him, decided to meet. He could theoretically have access to some secret information. He was 40 years, but he had no girls, no friends, I became his friend. And then he began to say that he would do everything for me.

So you later told him who you really are and what exactly you need?

Of course not. I just asked: listen, can you write a note on such and such an issue. You understand. But offhand, immediately upon meeting, it is difficult to understand whether a person is suitable for recruitment or not - after all, people are different. And maybe the social position is one, but the personality is completely different.

The final decision is whether this person is suitable for recruitment, who did?

I had to inform Moscow - they did an additional analysis of the candidacy and wrote yes or no. For example, the first person I recruited and thanks to whom I made a career was Agent Cook. When I wrote to Moscow about him, the first reaction was that it was an FBI trap. I wrote that I do not rule it out, but in my opinion, he knows too well all the problems of Marxist theory, which, I am sure, the FBI is not aware of.

And was it easy to convince Cook to work for the USSR?

No, it took time. He considered Khrushchev a traitor, Stalin did not like either, and I suggested that he work together on finding a new leader for the Union. By the way, sometimes it's not about political views, but about personal sympathies.

You mean to the female, probably?

I remember, met a girl. So pretty, nice, younger than me on 20. I asked her if she had a boyfriend. She replied that she did, but he serves in American aviation and therefore rarely happens at home. I asked why? She explained: he works in reconnaissance aviation, and they always make flights. Where? To Cuba. And then there was just the Cuban crisis. And so he flew, and while he flew, this girl was dating me. I once told her - you tell me better schedule your boyfriend, so I did not run into him. She said and then we (Soviet intelligence - ForumDaily) schedule transferred Cubans. She said she wouldn't be with the 5 through the 10 number. She just liked me.

What about your wife?

She was not in the know. Of course, I didn’t tell her anything.

What did your wife know about your work?

My wife in this regard was sensible and never asked questions that could embarrass me, but upset her. But she knew, of course, who I work. We lived together, but this did not prevent me from coming home at two or three in the morning.

As I understand it, this method of collecting information - through personal relationships - was very effective?

Yes. Soviet intelligence in this regard has an enormous experience of using women to compromise, for example, foreign diplomats in Moscow. First contact is established, then the woman becomes the diplomat's mistress. And he begins to collect information, and then the KGB may come.

What about blackmail, the KGB didn't stop it either?

This is also one of the methods, but I have never used it. I just did not have such a need - I was able to convince people.

And how much, in general, did a person recruit?

When I worked in America - 6 people. And when I was already in charge, there were about 500 foreign agents under my command.

Were these recruitment principles and technologies taught to you at the KGB Institute?

I graduated from the Institute of Foreign Languages ​​of the KGB. It was like a regular university. Only with special disciplines.

What are these?

Well, how to recruit people, to have to yourself, how to work with agents, the history of intelligence, espionage. It was somewhere 30% of the entire curriculum.

And the tests also passed on them? Surely, it was not just tickets with questions?

Yes, we went to the field, where we worked, for example, instant transfer. First, on the way, you put a signal on the mailbox - that I am in place, I will be soon. After 10 minutes we meet in 200 meters from the site, a person puts a packet on my way, and I give him an envelope with money - that's all.

Was it difficult to get into the KGB institute?

It was a closed organization, they were received there with good grades and, of course, a good reputation. My father worked in the KGB, so there was no problem with that. My father, by the way, was against it - he said that it was dirty work. I tell him: you yourself worked there for 30 years! To which he replied: therefore I can say that, you don’t need to go there. But children rarely obey their parents.

“Intelligence is a useful activity and the second oldest profession”

A former intelligence officer shows where the bug can be hidden. On this stand - in the heel of the shoes. Photo: Lesya Bakalets

School intelligence was already different?

Intelligence in general is a very interesting and useful activity, and, as I like to say, “the second oldest profession.” And there everything was already oriented towards the outside world. At the KGB institute they talked mainly about internal affairs, and at the intelligence school - about the outside world. And by the way, I had an Arabic direction, I was involved in the Middle East. Two weeks before leaving for Damascus, Syria, it was 1958, the department told me that I didn’t really look like an Arab. That's why they sent me to America.

And as whom did you go there?

As a Fulbright Scholar, I came to Columbia University. There were only 16 of us from the Union. Of these, 10 people are intelligence officers and one is from the party’s Central Committee.

All the things that an ordinary person is used to seeing in spy films - I mean secret transfers, notes under a special stone in the forest - is that true?

True, of course. Here is a poorly populated place - under a stone or just under a tree - a person leaves information there, and I come in in 15-20 minutes and collect it. And in another place I put a tick that took the message and leave the money.

Do you think it works now? Considering how many new technologies have appeared?

Well, technology will never replace man. Because one person can destroy all the technology. The human factor has always been central to intelligence, no technology can replace it, but it helps.

And what technical means were used in the work?

Only listening devices and all. I am a person of a different nature.

Is that also true about the famous umbrella that shoots poison?

The infamous umbrella that killed the Bulgarian dissident Georgy Markov. Photo: Lesya Bakalets

Yes, it was. The Bulgarian president found out that his daughter’s lover (we are talking about a dissident of Georgia Markovo – ForumDaily) cheats on her. And the president decided to punish him. This man fled from Bulgaria to London. There he was quickly found, and the Bulgarian government turned to the Soviet government with a request to help deal with this traitor. When Andropov was informed that a similar request had been received from the Bulgarians, he said that he was against political murders. And Kryuchkov, he was then the head of the KGB, said: this is the Bulgarian KGB asking on behalf of the President of Bulgaria, and if we refuse, relations will deteriorate. And then Andropov decided: okay, give the Bulgarians everything they need, but no personal participation. They were given poison (ricin) and an umbrella, into the tip of which a special KGB laboratory had built an ampoule and a hook - they had to pull it, the ampoule flew out and stuck into the victim’s body at a distance of approximately five meters. Basically, you had to approach her and open your umbrella. This did not kill immediately - the poison spread throughout the body.

Under your generalship, was the practice of eliminating objectionable?

No, this didn’t happen to me. Another thing is that we brought traitors to justice, and they were all sentenced to death by a Soviet military tribunal for treason. The task of the organization I led was to find their place. Then they decided what to do with them.

You say intelligence is a good thing. And what can an ordinary person learn from a scout?

First of all, the right attitude towards people - even if you don’t like the person, show him the maximum of basic politeness and respect. A person and his dignity are the most important thing.

So you respected all the people you recruited?

Of course, they also worked for me.

Even considering the fact that in fact they were all traitors?

My country, yes. And for my - patriots.

They say that Washington is just crammed with special agents, can they somehow be identified in the crowd?

In my opinion, good (agent — ForumDaily) no way, he is the same as everyone else. This is his skill - to be like everyone else.

Is there something you will never tell?

No. I may forget something, but if they remind me, I’ll tell you further. And as an intelligence officer, I have not existed for a long time; I am a pensioner.

And nostalgia torments? Still, more than 20 years were not at home.

No, I never did. I have warm memories of my hometown - Leningrad. And if political circumstances change, and my sentence is overturned, I will go, as they say, “for a week, until the second.”